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 le KISS des années 70 est mort ça nous le savons tous ......mais qui est le coupable ?

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avatarDOMMPsycho circusMessages : 9573
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MessageSujet: le KISS des années 70 est mort ça nous le savons tous ......mais qui est le coupable ?    Ven 5 Fév - 21:19

Who Killed KISS?

In May of 1980 when Peter Criss was shown the door it was the official nail in the KISS Coffin (available exclusively at for the original lineup.  The signs were there as the band split into two factions.  Gene and Paul in one corner with Ace and Peter in the other.  I know that’s simplifying things quite a bit as we now know Paul disliked everyone not in his mirror.  KISS would eventually maneuver this storm and come out strong starting with the 1983 release Lick It Up.  While much has been debated as to who/what saved KISS, less has been discussed as to what killed KISS.  I mean of course in both instances it’s a series of events and actions over some time and not a singular moment or person.  But it’s KISSmas in July so let’s have some fun with a special KISS themed “Whodunnit?” and figure out just Who killed KISS?

Peter Criss.  He managed to hide his bitterness in the early years.  My guess is as much as he may have felt shunned at times and as much he may have made things difficult, he largely went with the flow because what else was he gonna do?  The giant pile of money didn’t exist and at least this band was making progress.  But once he could use a fresh $100 bill for every line of coke Peter’s attitude was largely predictable.  People with his personality always feel they deserve more.  They are always sure deals are being made behind their back.  And when backed into a corner they would cut off their tail to spite their ass.  His talents have been debated but his pettiness hasn’t.  He can blame drugs, a failing marriage or the stress of being away from home and family.  The bottom line is life is better for Pete when he is in KISS.  And worse when he’s not.  It was exactly what he signed up for and he was rewarded handsomely.  To rock the boat to the point where he actually stopped playing during a concert?  Easily the most likely member of KISS to say “Don’t you know who I am?”  Peter’s lack of respect for how good he had it made working with him extremely
difficult.  And that’s how Peter Criss killed KISS.

Ace Frehley.  The second most likely member of KISS to say “Don’t you know who I am?”  Famously chose playing cards over working in the studio for the record Destroyer.  This guy is just lazy.  The guitar must have come easy for him or he wouldn’t still be playing.  A point proven by his never evolving style.  And just like Pete, no respect for how easy he had it.  If you think about it, not much was asked of him.  Yet it was still too much.  Fame went to his head.  He has no understanding that the money will eventually run out.  Alcohol and drugs also played a role.  And he never doubted a word of worship some hanger on threw his way.  The free fall he suffered was predictable and deserved.  He brags about his fans but often treats them like shit.  Once he could buy anything he wanted and do whatever he wanted, he no longer wanted to be in KISS.  He likes to point at the over commercialization or how young their fan base was getting as reasons he became disillusioned.  In truth he just couldn’t be bothered once he had it all and those were just convenient reasons to justify his predilection to doing nothing.  It’s nice he came blame it on something because It’s more likely that I fart smoke than Ace will ever have an honest look in the mirror.   Throw in the unintended consequence of his solo album and the song “New York Groove” being a hit and now he had all the evidence he’d need to prove how he was right to feel that way.  His head got too big and his inability to be honest with himself is how Ace Frehley killed KISS.

Gene Simmons.  It’s odd that Gene was the most reluctant when time came to take off the make up because no one wanted to be Hollywood more than him.  He wanted the world to know he was dating famous people and had famous friends.  He’s often given credit for being a great marketing mind when in reality he’s nothing more than an opportunist who said yes to everything.  By the end of 1975 KISS was the band all the cool kids liked.  In two years they would be the band all the first graders liked.  While that may have been fine with him, it clearly wasn’t with Ace and Peter who never joined a rock band to become family friendly entertainment.  They wanted to be Vegas and Gene wanted to be Disneyland.  Almost a byproduct of Gene’s attitude about drugs and alcohol, I doubt he ever truly understood cool and was always that lonely immigrant kid escaping into horror movies and comic books.  Time after time Gene made band decisions without thinking the other members might not agree. He didn’t consider the effect his actions had on the unity of his band.  The only reason he was in a position to do all these things was because of KISS.  And to disrespect his fellow band mates was disrespecting KISS.  Paul tells Gene he just saw this amazing band called Van Halen and Gene tells the world he discovered this new band called Van Halen.  Imagine sitting next to this clown in interview after interview and have to listen to him minimize your work while simultaneously taking credit for it.  Gene is a selfish man child who never grew up.  He has no friends because he insists on being the stereotypical only child.  Gene made band decisions that others in the band felt projected an image they weren’t comfortable with and he didn’t care.  That combined with his unwillingness to give credit where credit is due is how Gene Simmons killed KISS.

Paul Stanley.  At last check he still hasn’t gotten over junior high bullies.  Arguably the biggest talent in KISS.  Early on he was the best songwriter.  He has always been the strongest singer.  And while he was never gonna be Jimmy Page, Paul Stanley can play some guitar.  But the bitterness of being born with a deformity never left him.  He was passive aggressive with band mates.  He was the one person that could actually smack Gene down a peg but didn’t do it until 1988.  Gene can’t help himself.  You hand Gene a prototype of a KISS toilet brush and he’s gonna greenlight it.  That doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.  Paul knew better yet seemingly stood quiet.  Almost because it irritated Ace and Peter.  He never accepted them as equals on even a human level.  It’s quite possible he was more petty than Peter.  In a group setting, you sometimes need to accommodate others who may not realize the need to reciprocate.  But if no one is willing to be the bigger man the outcome is doomed.  Paul never like Peter or Ace.  Once they got big his disdain for Peter was impossible to hide and he always viewed Ace’s substance abuse as a problem with a simple fix.  By having no respect for the contributions of Ace and Peter combined with his unwillingness to pump the breaks on much of the merchandising, is how Paul Stanley killed KISS.

Bill Aucoin.  It’s hard to imagine KISS reaching the heights they did without Bill Aucoin.  It’s also quite possible Bill caused their demise.  Bill came from a TV background and never viewed KISS as musicians as much as an act.  Rather than sit them all down when the issues started to sprout, he just tried to appease each of them as individuals which was a different thing for each member.  Which is really just leaving a problem to fester with no real resolution.  And he had his own ego boost with the bands success.  Taking on new clients when the band who made that possible was starting to fracture.  He was more concerned with his own portfolio than protecting the only reason doors were being opened for him.  Bill treated KISS like a cash machine and he was intent on getting every dollar.  When it mattered most he didn’t act like a manager and that’s how Bill Aucoin killed KISS.

Neil Bogart.  Probably the closest thing to P.T. Barnum we saw in the 20th century.  Neil Bogart understood the industry and how it was run.  He knew how to create public interest through spectacle.  But he knew nothing of actual artist development.  He spent money faster than it came in and if not for duping the powers that be at Polygram into buying Casablanca Records, largely based on inflated interest, he would’ve been bankrupt by 1978.  Much like Gene, Neil couldn’t say no to anything.  In his head, there was nothing to discuss.  Why wouldn’t the band like to go another 8 months without ever being home?  He was more concerned with impressing people in other worlds than he was at running a label.  He treated KISS as a commodity and not humans and that’s how Neil Bogart killed KISS.

Success.  If you knew each member of the band before they got famous.  Before they got rich.  And knew them well.  You would never think they could keep it together with wealth and fame.  The fact Gene and Paul have managed to remain partners is nothing short of a miracle.  Keeping four people on the same page is much easier when there are few options.  We all work with people we don’t care for, but we don’t quit our job.  But if we won the lottery we would.  Success means more opportunity.  More opportunity means, of course, more options.  By options, I mean outsiders telling four fairly credulous simpletons what their ego’s wanted to hear.  Odd when you think of it.  If the band had never taken off, they would’ve eventually broken up.  And once they did take off they were doomed to splinter in some sort as well.  Success fed each member of KISS with just enough ego boost to blind them to the fact they needed each other.  And in that way Success killed KISS.

Disco.  Once Paul got a gold record, he started chasing trends.  It started innocently enough with a song inspired by Rod Stewart‘s “Maggie May”.  But once he wrote a Disco song Paul never totally got back to what made him great.  He followed trends and leaned on co-writers.  One of whom was future super songwriter Desmond Child of which their first collaboration was the Disco song “I was Made For Loving You”.  Had Disco never existed, Paul may have never lost his greatness and Desmond Child may have not became the premier songwriter of the 80’s meaning Aerosmith would’ve faded away.  In other words, the world would be much better.  By being too enticing for Paul to resist, Disco killed KISS.

Lydia Criss.  Always calling and nagging Pete to come home.  Of course I have no idea what I’m talking about but every band needs a Yoko right?

Well, that’s at the very least some debatable fodder.  Was it Gene?  Paul?  Neil?  Disco?  The real truth is Gene and Paul looked at success with KISS like it was a carrot at the end of a stick.  Something they will forever chase.  While Ace and Peter saw it as a journey up the mountain.  Get to the top and enjoy the view.  And let’s be honest.  Once they did get big, none of the members of the band gave proper credit to the role the others played.  Come back next week when I’ll discuss who saved KISS.  Spoiler alert.  Not Vinnie

alors deux choses .
1 / j'ai récupéré cet article sur l'excellent forum vinnie vincent cet article a lui même été récupéré sur un site du nom de DECIBEL GEEK ...
2 / il est en anglais désolé ALVIN , je n'ai pas le temps de le traduire ...
3 / il est excellent malgré une froideur d'analyse implacable ...Apres a chacun de se faire son idée .
cette vision ou relecture de l'histoire du KISS des années 70 peut être irritante ou même blesser certain(es) fans ....
perso je ne cautionne pas tout (peut être ai je tord ) ...donc prenez du recul et ne vous  formalisez pas trop ....c'est juste un article , pas la bible .
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avatarSonicboomRevengeMessages : 7979
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MessageSujet: Re: le KISS des années 70 est mort ça nous le savons tous ......mais qui est le coupable ?    Sam 6 Fév - 14:57

Merci Domm, je suis d'accord. Moi mes bibles c'est Alive ou Destroyer ou COTN Wink
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avatarphiphiDestroyerMessages : 1109
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MessageSujet: Re: le KISS des années 70 est mort ça nous le savons tous ......mais qui est le coupable ?    Sam 20 Fév - 8:29

Joel Goldenberg: Can angry rockers let bygones be bygones?
By Joel Goldenberg The Suburban 12 hrs ago 02/19/2016

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In a rather heartrending statement, former Eagle Don Felder paid very touching tribute to late band co-founder Glenn Frey, and regretted that they never resolved the issues between them.

After former Beatle John Lennon was killed in 1980, Paul McCartney said he was gratified that they had a last, positive phone conversation, during which the issue of business — a topic that usually sparked an argument — was avoided. George Harrison felt very bad — Lennon had expressed just before his death his deep disappointment that Harrison's autobiography I Me Mine barely mentioned him — and that divide between them was never resolved.

In a very recent interview, Beach Boy Mike Love professed his love for his cousin, group songwriter-singer-producer Brian Wilson, but he still carries a more than 50-year-old grudge that Wilson's father Murry cut Love's name out of some songwriting credits, even though a legal case on that issue was resolved in Mike's favour more than 20 years ago. Mike still transfers some of the blame to Brian.

When I saw the Rolling Stones on their 50th anniversary tour at the Bell Centre, it was clearly evident that co-founders Mick Jagger and Keith Richards barely looked at each other. There are a few issues between them, allegedly including Richards' disparaging, in print, the size of Mick's manhood.

In both cases above, there's no sign these issues will be resolved, even as all involved are getting on in age.

But when it comes to rock battles, none can equal the ongoing one between the original members of Kiss.

How many bands do you know where all those involved write autobiographies slamming their former compatriots? Even when post-breakup Beatle tension — mainly between Lennon and McCartney — was at its peak, the anger was expressed in interviews, letters to the editor and, mostly indirectly, in songs.

But with Kiss, the issues are many. Paul Stanley's allegations of anti-Semitism against Ace Frehley and Peter Criss, without identifying any actual incident (Ace and Peter deny this strongly); Paul's resentment of Gene Simmons allegedly taking credit for all Kiss activity while, at times, doing very little for the band; Paul and Gene's anger over Ace's and Peter's past drug and alcohol abuse; Peter slamming Gene and Paul's alleged intimidation of him and Ace; Peter's anger and insecurity issues; Ace's laziness; allegations of Gene's lack of hygiene; the fact that two newer members of Kiss wear the makeup and assume the characters of Space Ace and the Cat (Criss).

It goes on and on, to the extent that great drama surrounded Kiss's induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame a couple of years ago. "Would the original guys play for a mere 15 minutes?" fans wanted to know. One day it looked like that would happen, the next day it was shot down. As it turned out, the four originals just made speeches and posed for photos.

The spite between them has been just poisonous. On YouTube, you can listen to audio book excerpts of Paul and Gene slicing and dicing Ace and Peter, and Paul slamming Gene.

On the other hand, having read all or part of each member's autobiography — a common theme emerges. The most interesting and hilarious anecdotes about band activity emanate from the 1970s, and even during the reunion years of 1996 to 2001. After all, life with two party animals could never be boring. The anecdotes from Paul about Peter and Ace's replacements are few and rather uneventful, pretty much restricted to drummer Eric Carr's goodheartedness and attacks of gas whenever he got nervous; the good work ethic of current members Tommy Thayer and Eric Singer; and the misbehaviour of early 1980s guitarist Vinnie Vincent.

The stories about the original band's exploits with each other make it clear that they are brothers in all but name. Dysfunctional, maybe, but the affection between the originals is there, below the surface of all the animosity.

And, of course, family members have some of the worst fights of all. So, it would be nice, before somebody passes on, if they could all make peace. There was a hint of affection at the Hall of Fame ceremony.

There doesn't have to be a reunion concert. Just a "we're letting bygones be bygones" statement.
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avatarphiphiDestroyerMessages : 1109
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MessageSujet: Re: le KISS des années 70 est mort ça nous le savons tous ......mais qui est le coupable ?    Sam 20 Fév - 9:13

Je ne suis pas sûr d'avoir tout bien compris mais je pense que l'idée maîtresse de cet article est bien l'importance de la formation originale dans l'histoire de Kiss même s'il y a des animosités entre eux.

Je passe la première partie qui explique les animosités entre les leaders dans tous les grands groupes...

Même si chaque membre reproche plein de choses aux autres... notamment le binôme Ace - Peter contre le binôme Gene - Paul et vice et versa... des choses plus ou moins fondés (l'antisémitisme d'Ace et Peter selon Paul, le ressentiment de Paul contre Gene pour ses allégations d'avoir tout fait pour Kiss, la tyrannie de Gene et Paul selon Peter, les problèmes de colère et de danger de Peter, la paresse d'Ace, la mauvaise hygiène de Gene selon Ace, les addictions d'Ace et Peter à la drogue et alcool selon Paul et Gene, le fait que deux nouveaux membres est endossé le costume du chat et de l'homme de l'espace, etc..)
Cela a aussi été compliqué pour leur intonisation au rock and Roll Fame... Un jour c'était cela, le lendemain c'était le contraire... A la fin, les quatre originaux ont juste parlé et posé pour des photos...
La rancune entre eux est un véritable poison. Sur you tube, vous pouvez entendre des messages audio de Gene et Paul qui démontent Ace et Peter (découpent en tranches) , et Paul critique Gene.

Les anecdotes les plus drôles et les plus intéressantes émanent des années 70 et même de la période de la réunion de 1996 à 2001. Après tout, la vie avec deux partis "animal" ne peut jamais être ennuyeuse. Les anecdotes de Paul à propos des remplaçants d'Ace et Peter sont peu nombreuses et sans incidents. Même un peu restrictives pour le bon coeur du batteur Eric Carr, le bon travail de Tommy thayer et Eric Singer et la mauvaise conduite du guitariste Vinnie Vincent au début des années 80.

Les quatre membres originaux sont des frères... Certes la famille fonctionne mal (a des dysfonctionnements) mais l'affection entre les membres est réelle.
Donc cela serait bien s'il pouvait faire la paix avant que l'un d'entre-eux décède.
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avatarAlvinModérateurMessages : 4277
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MessageSujet: Re: le KISS des années 70 est mort ça nous le savons tous ......mais qui est le coupable ?    Sam 20 Fév - 10:13

Bien dit Phiphi !!
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MessageSujet: Re: le KISS des années 70 est mort ça nous le savons tous ......mais qui est le coupable ?    

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